How to Fight Christian Nationalism?

Andrew Whitehead: Meet the Tacketts.

Chris Tackett: Yeah, I'm Chris Tackett.

Mendi Tackett: And I'm Mendi Tackett.

Chris Tackett: And we live in Fort Worth Texas.

Andrew: Back in 2008 the Tacketts had just moved back to their hometown of Granbury, Texas. With the population of around 12,000, it sits about an hour southwest of Fort Worth. Mendi and Chris grew up there and decided that this was where they wanted to raise their family. But as they settled in and started to get involved in the community, like running the local baseball and softball association and serving on the school board for three years, they started to see the community they knew and loved change in front of their eyes. And they weren't quite sure what to call it.

Mendi Tackett: Well, when Chris ran for school board in 2014, there, at that point, really wasn't anything on our radar about things being off or having changed. One of the main things that happened was he went to-- because school board is non-partisan-- he had gone to lots of different groups to introduce himself. Say, 'Hello,' that sort of thing. And he went to one of the Republican club meetings, and he came home that night and said to me, it was very odd there was a presenter there that was talking about the importance of conservatives taking over school boards.

Andrew: Here's General Mike Flynn talking about this very issue.

Media Clip (Mike Flynn): Yeah, I do use this phrase, 'Local action, national impact.' Local action, national impact. If we do that across the country, that's the way we're going to take this country back. Since November, since the November Virginia election across the country, we have overturned 200 school boards in this country. 200!

Chris Tackett: And then soon after, I mean, we started seeing the local pastor council, after the election that I was successful in, the very next one they started taking out ads in the newspaper saying, we need good conservative Christians to be running for office. And, you know, taking over these roles. And so it all just started to-- that was truly where it started to change, where it stopped just being about serving your community, and it became you had to be the right kind of person. Their kind of person, to be able to serve in the community.

Andrew: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis likens it to spiritual warfare.

Media Clip (Mike Pence): We need people all over the country to be willing to put on that full armor of God, to stand firm against the left's schemes. You'll be met with flaming arrows, but the shield of faith will stop them.

Mendi Tackett: And then, as we went towards the 2016 election, I started watching church sermons online, because there were enough things that had happened that I just felt uneasy about it, right? There were multiple churches who, while at that point, I still didn't have the language to define it. So we really started digging in at that point to: what is this? Because this is not what we're used to seeing. This is not the kind of response we're used to seeing from churches here. And it's not the kind of politics-- conservative or not-- it's not the kind of politics we're used to. And it just began to snowball. I mean, every single year it got worse and worse and worse. And our community had just flat out been taken over by Christian nationalism.

Jemar Tisby: The nation that reverences God will be blessed by God. The nation that rejects God will be rejected by God.

Anthea Butler: The church is supposed to direct the government. The government is not supposed to direct the church. That is not how our Founding Fathers intended it.

Sam Perry: And we have the left routinely speaking of me and of others as Christian nationalists, as if we're supposed to be running from that.

Media Clip (Greene): We need to be the party of nationalism. And I'm a Christian, and I say it proudly. We should be Christian nationalist.

Media Clip (Trump): And by the way, Christianity will have power without having to form, because if I'm there, you're gonna have plenty of power. You don't need anybody else. You're gonna have somebody representing you very, very well. Remember that.

Bradley Onishi: Welcome to American Idols, a podcast series produced by Axis Mundi Media. Sound production and design by Scott Okamoto, who also provided the series' original music. American Idols was written and created by Dr. Andrew Whitehead and produced by me, Bradley Onishi.

Andrew: Religion in the United States has changed dramatically over the last half century. Where White Christians used to be the unquestioned majority, they are now much smaller in size and surrounded by much more religious diversity. Now anywhere from a quarter to a third of American adults locate themselves outside any organized religion. What might once have been taken for granted, no longer is. This has had a noticeable influence on what it means to be religious or even Christian in the public sphere. The Tackett story, where the tenor and shape of local and national politics shifted around us, perhaps sounds similar. Survey data supports what they experienced, this desire for the right type of people to be in power in order to save the nation. Americans are seeing their communities change right in front of their eyes. And as we've explored in the previous three episodes, Christian nationalism is not only real, but embraced by millions of Americans to varying degrees. Christian nationalism is far from fringe and presents a real and present threat to a functioning, pluralistic, democratic society. Furthermore, Christian nationalism severely limits and in many cases, actively opposes expressions of Christianity focused on serving and supporting the marginalized and oppressed. But what comes next? Especially with the 2024 presidential election looming. Where might this all be headed? I asked a number of people, fellow academics, community organizers, nonprofit leaders, engaged citizens like the Tacketts, this very question. Some common themes emerged, like a continued sense of fear and threat for those who embrace Christian nationalism, the threat of enacting violence if elections don't turn out as they'd hoped, and continued attacks on the guardrails of democracy and democratic institutions. If January 6, 2021, taught us anything, it's that political violence is always a possibility. I asked Andrew Seidel, who's a constitutional lawyer and author, about this very issue.

Andrew Seidel: One thing that I'm certainly concerned about, always concerned about, when it comes to Christian nationalism in our elections, is violence in the elections. Especially after all the work that you and I did with January 6th. I mean, that was a really big concern. So I'm still worried about that for this coming presidential election. Are we going to see something like January 6th? Are we going to see something worse than January 6th? Luckily, Trump's not in power, but it's definitely a big concern. So that's, I mean, that's probably my overriding concern, right? I think all the time about the attacker who kicked in Speaker Pelosi's door, hoping that the crowd would quote, in his words, 'tear her into little pieces.' And he was, he was at one of his hearings, one of his arraignments, I think it might have been one of his legal hearings we'll say. And he said, quote, 'God is on Trump's side. God is not on the Democrat side. And if Patriots have to kill 60 million of these communists, it is God's will.' Right? These attackers believe that this is their country, that it's given to them by their God, that they're acting on his orders, and defending his chosen one. And when reality, like the raw vote totals in an election, collides with a belief system like that, violence is almost inevitable. And that's what happened on January 6th, and that's what I worry about happening again.

Andrew: So not only is violence and the possibility of violence a real threat, it's the distrust in our democracy and democratic institutions. Remember in episode two, where I discussed conspiratorial thinking as one key overlapping element with Christian nationalism that was part of the story on January 6th? Dr. Abigail Vegter shared about her research on Christian nationalism and conspiracy theories, and she sees how that overlap has implications for democracy in the US.

Abigail Vegter: There's a distrust in those democratic systems. And there's a call to, sort of, undermine the systems at play when that threat is especially strong. And as our country continues to change, and as our country continues to, kind of, exist in this polarized time that we're in, there are groups that are feeling as if their status is increasingly threatened, and Christian nationalists are one of those groups. They see themselves as under threat, and over the next few years, it's going to be important to watch how they respond to those fears.

Andrew: Robert P. Jones is president of PRRI and author of "The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy," this is how he sums it up:

Robert P. Jones: The 2012 election with Romney versus Obama is a good illustration of just how quickly the power of White Christian America has declined. Romney actually did pretty well among White evangelical voters. He hit all his basic marks that his campaign should have hit. If he had run the same campaign he ran and got the same kinds of support he got in 2004, he would have won. But what had changed between 2004 and 2012 was that the religious and racial landscape had shifted just enough that it wasn't enough to put him over the top.

Andrew: As we've talked about in episode two, Christian nationalism presents a clear threat to democracy because it's, at its core, anti-democratic. It has a particular view of how the world should be ordered, and this view is ordained by the Christian God. So if democracy can't, or won't, allow for that view of the world, then it can and should be set aside. This sense of threat, of losing control over privileged access to power, and controlling how the US should be ordered creates a willingness to resort to violence to achieve those ends. Here's former Vice President Mike Pence in the lead up to the 2020 election, who was then a target of mob violence on January 6th.

Media Clip (Mike Pence): When you consider Joe Biden's agenda and his embrace of the radical left, it's clear. Joe Biden would be nothing more than an auto-pen president. A Trojan horse for a radical agenda. So radical, so all-encompassing that it would transform this country into something utterly unrecognizable

Andrew: When politicians like Pence use blatant appeals to fear and threat, is it any wonder when some hear those warnings and do whatever they deem necessary to resist? Is it any surprise that some Americans would take matters into their own hands if they feel their country is being stolen from them?

Not only has religious diversity increased, but socio-demographic diversity has increased in the United States as well. This reality, again, creates a feeling of a rapidly changing world. Voices and perspectives that used to dominate are now just one among many. For groups accustomed to privilege, having to listen, learn, and interact on a level playing field is challenging, to say the least. And there is a tendency to want to run from the discussion, to circle the wagons and batten down the hatches, to dig in and double down. This is especially true among some sectors of American Christianity. Here's Jemar Tisby, who we heard in episode one, talking about race, Christian nationalism, and the future of the United States.

Jemar Tisby: As I often say, White Christian nationalism is the greatest threat to democracy and the witness of the church in the United States today. So, on the church side, my concern is that there is an increasing hardening of positions. So what I see happening right now is a sifting going on within the church in the United States where there are people who, even if they weren't committed prior to, let's say 2020, and the George Floyd uprisings and things of that nature, they know something's wrong with business as usual in the church, and they they want something else. They want something different. But again and again, those folks are just being hammered. They are being excluded. They're being marginalized. They're being labeled as woke, as critical race theorists, even as communists, whatever the latest label is. And so those folks find less and less room in these churches, in these faith communities, and they leave, and the ones who remain get harder and more ossified in their beliefs and harder to convince and persuade. So its extremism and its polarization, but not equal on both sides. The right is moving to the extreme far faster and in more harmful ways, in many ways, than the left. And so this separation means we have no common ground. We cannot debate, we cannot come to any sort of conclusions together. And what that will lead to is a nation not only divided, but hostile to one another, distrustful of one another, and it could rip the very fabric, not only of our democratic political system, but of our faith communities as well.

Andrew: As Andrew Seidel highlights the threat of future violence, Dr. Vegter warns us about the threats to our democratic institutions, and Dr. Tisby points us to the dangers within the American church. Dr. Anthea Butler emphasizes how all of this will play out in the educational domain, where public schools are under constant attack. This is especially true in how we teach our nation's history, both the good and the bad.

Anthea Butler: What I see coming from White Christian nationalism in the next few years is what has been happening with the educational system, the re-jiggering, let's say, of what we think is the nation's history, and that is to think about the ways that slavery has been reappropriated, to be something like a training program for enslaved Africans, rather than enslavement and subjugation and really horrible things happening in the midst of slavery. It's also about the naivete that I've spoken about of White people who don't want to deal with the harder parts of American history. And that's just not about slavery. That's about internment, that's about, you know, Native Americans being forced to be on reservations. These kinds of histories seem to be at odds with what Christian nationalists, and specifically White Christian nationalists, believe about the nation. So their project, as it were, for the next few years, I see, is to reframe education and make the lie become the truth. In other words, the lie that they believed that there was always a better time in America and that there was always something better to look forward to was framed in the fact that America was an exceptional nation. And so that, for them, is one of the biggest programs right now.

Andrew: When there is such a strong commitment to the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation, there is an inherent unwillingness to own how such a Christian nation could have perpetuated and committed such evil acts. So, what can we expect in the coming months and years? An ongoing threat of violence around our elections, particularly if folks perpetuate claims of fraud and Americans embrace those claims without evidence. Conspiratorial thinking presents a very real threat to a functioning civil society. Related to this, we can expect a continued tendency toward polarization, to moving further away from any sort of middle ground. While this can happen on the political left, the evidence from the last several decades is that those on the political right have moved further right. Finally, what and how we remember, what histories we teach and don't teach will signal whether we are committed to learning from our past and working toward building a more just future, or if we are committed to ensuring only certain groups remain privileged. So this gives us an idea of what to expect in the coming months and years. But how can we respond? What can everyday Americans do? What can Christians do to confront and oppose Christian nationalism? As I talked with scholars, community organizers, and those working in contexts where White Christian nationalism is present, there were several common responses regarding how we can begin to collectively and even individually respond.

A first response is to get involved in your local community politics. So much of the political work around White Christian nationalism seems to be happening at the federal level, so far away from our community centers, schools, libraries, and public parks. Dr. Anthea Butler, a scholar of religion and race at the University of Pennsylvania, described the reality this way:

Anthea Butler: One of the things I've been saying to people is that voting is not enough. It seems that people think that if you go into the voting booth and you pull the lever for the right person, that something magical is going to happen. That's not it. What the magical thing that can happen is, is that if you get involved in your local, state, and national government. And what I mean by that is this: school boards are being taken over. You need to go to school board meetings, whether you have kids or not. You need to talk to your neighbors. You need to talk to your relatives that you haven't spoken to because you don't want to start a fight at the kitchen table at Thanksgiving. You need to be able to be engaged, because if this continues, we will not have a democracy. We will have a theocracy.

Andrew: Andrew Seidel, who works for Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, echoes the call to get involved locally.

Andrew Seidel: The simplest thing you can do is speak out against Christian nationalism wherever you see it, whether it's online. I really would encourage people to go to their local government meetings. We know that Christian nationalists have targeted local government meetings, especially school boards. And that's one of the ways they've been able to do some of the things, like try to take over the public schools in Oklahoma. And do not sit quietly when you hear somebody preaching Christian nationalism. Speak out against it.

Andrew: An example of what Dr. Butler and Andrew Seidel are talking about is the recent spate of fights at both community and school libraries around which books should be banned. Here again, the Tacketts experiences from 2015, mirror the sorts of fights we see happening elsewhere across the United States.

Mendi Tackett: But in 2015, the local public library, not the school library, but the public library, experienced a book challenge on LGBTQ library books that were in the kids section. There were two books that were being targeted.

Andrew: In my home state of Indiana, a community near me, Noblesville, adopted a review process that is expected to cost upwards of $300,000 and resulted in the re-shelving of young adult author John Green's 'A Fault in Our Stars,' and his response went viral-- definitely worth a Google search-- along with almost all graphic novels, including Captain America and other Marvel Comics. Librarians later returned John Green's books and some of the comics, but at the beginning of September, the shelves in the teen zone sat mostly empty. Oftentimes, an argument is made that a book or books violates particular religious principles and certain groups do not want their child to have access to it. The difference, of course, is that by banning it or limiting access to it, these groups demand that no one's child have access to it. Another thing that stands out to me in Andrew Seidel and Dr. Butler's answers relates to the concept of plausibility structures, mentioned in episode one. If you remember, plausibility structures are the social arrangements that provide support for meaning and belief systems. In effect, what we value and believe is supported through the relationships we have with others, or even the books we read. If everyone believes like me, I have a strong plausibility structure, and the likelihood of questioning deeply held values or beliefs is low. If folks I'm connected to differ from me, or I read accounts that provide me an alternative perspective, the likelihood of reevaluating my beliefs goes up. So when academics and community organizers encourage us to talk to our neighbors and family members, even possibly risking some interpersonal conflict, they're highlighting the reality that until we kindly, but firmly, encourage people who embrace or sympathize with Christian nationalism to rethink some of their assumptions, they will never have the opportunity to or be forced to reconsider what was before just taken for granted. Robbie Jones, president of PRRI and author of 'The Roots of White Supremacy,' describes it this way:

Robert P. Jones: I think we've got a real responsibility to call it out early and call it out. You know, certainly in a--there's ways to do that, I think, by just saying, 'Well, hold on, let's talk about that. You know, what do you really mean by that?' And often when you do that, you know, you find that people are parroting a talking point they heard from somewhere else, and haven't really thought it through, you know? And once they do start thinking it through, they think about it a little bit differently. And I think that's one of the things that your book does, is kind of help slow the conversation down, unpack it. What really are the implications of what we're saying? Because the implications are actually quite ugly.

Andrew: The Tacketts, who we heard from at the beginning of the episode, shared how important it is just to speak up even once, to show that there's disagreement.

Chris Tackett: ...because without voices coming from a space of compassion and empathy saying, 'This isn't okay,' and a lot of times, because that minority group is so loud, a lack of voices speaking against them is almost taken as a, 'Well, they must be right.' And so having those voices, and again, coming from a grassroots, from just regular people showing up. Whether it's speaking to their legislatures, their city council, those school board meetings saying, 'This isn't okay. This is not who we want to be,' and then showing up at the ballot box and voting, it's essential.

Andrew: These actions help highlight what a vocal minority might want to make appear as taken for granted that really isn't. The Tacketts shared their mantra with me: 'See it, name it, fight it.'

Chris Tackett: If you're looking to get involved, it is showing up in those local spaces where there is an active attempt to try to take things over-- school board meetings, city council meetings, county commissioners meetings. You have to hear what's being said so that you can effectively work against it. I think you have to find and leverage your tribe to help educate others about what's going on. Because, you know, one voice speaking out against this is pretty lonely. As you start to find others who are seeing the same things and are helping advocate and you can work with it becomes much more effective.

Andrew: It's also important for those of us who perhaps are already on board with confronting and opposing Christian nationalism, to maintain connections and relationships with those who see and experience the world differently than us. My frequent collaborator and friend Sam Perry shared with me a bit about his future work. He's interested in examining how increasingly embracing Christian nationalism amplifies effective polarization for Republicans-- now, effective polarization is how much we prefer our own group-- and how it decreases effective polarization for Democrats. So increasingly embracing Christian nationalism makes Republicans like and trust Republicans more and makes Democrats less likely to distrust Republicans or prefer other Democrats. And interestingly, some of his current research is showing which Americans are less likely to be hostile toward those not in their group.

Sam Perry: I think where the research points us, and the Christian nationalism research is contributing to this is, is that those Americans who are cross-pressured, in other words, they are involved in like a variety of different groups that maybe don't go along together so neatly politically, those Americans are the least hostile towards political opponents. They're the ones who are more likely to tolerate, say, and have conversations with people who are different from them because they're involved in a bunch of different groups.

Andrew: And while studies show political polarization in the United States has been asymmetric, meaning Republicans have moved further right than Democrats have moved left, we as citizens can respond without ignoring the real threats posed to democracy by Christian nationalism and the anti-democratic tactics employed by those on the right. I do appreciate Sam's advice for us as we live in an increasingly polarized and segmented society.

Sam Perry: I think most polarization has been asymmetric, certainly at the level of elite leadership and partisanship. The Republican Party has been more aggressive, I think, in advocating for, like, anti-democratic and authoritarian kinds of politics. And yet, the average American, I would encourage to stay as cross-pressured as possible. What I mean by that is, I mean to be involved with different people, right? Like, to have relationships with people who think differently from you, that you don't hate, that you recognize that there are human beings, and they have, yeah, they have areas you disagree with them, but you also recognize their humanity, and you recognize that they're Americans too, and you recognize that maybe they may even share your same religious views, only just different politically. And be cross-pressured in a way that allows you to maintain the ability to see things for the complex relationships that they are, to see people as complex people, rather than demonizing or vilifying every person who ticks the box that you don't. That is, that is where I would say I would love for more Americans to be. As I see in the data, I think those Americans who are cross-pressured, who are involved in a lot of different groups and are just, you know, out with people who are different from them, I think are the ones who can keep democracy going.

Andrew: It may be that to seek out relationships and contexts where you are cross-pressured, as Sam describes, you may have to leave a place where few differences exist. And it could also be that you might have to, at some point, leave a place to signal your opposition where Christian nationalism is either being subtly encouraged or actively embraced. Here's Dr. Butler again.

Anthea Butler: I think the other thing is that people need to start to vote with their feet and not just with their fingers. And what I mean by that is lots of Christians sit in churches every Sunday that have these kinds of messages coming forth. Why are you still sitting there? Why are you supporting these kinds of ministries and other things? Because you believe that they minister to your soul, let's say, but they don't do anything in terms of helping to maintain a stable democracy or civic engagement. I think there's lots of people who are sitting in churches right now that feel comfortable because they are comfortable with their friends, but they need to think about leaving.

Andrew: Now those types of conversations and relationships and decisions are hard. Many of us would rather just get through our days with as little friction as possible. It can be hard to see how speaking up in a conversation or attending a school board meeting or participating in a city council meeting can truly make a difference. Is it worth the discomfort when I asked Jemar Tisby what we can do in this moment, he offered this challenging but necessary call:

Jemar Tisby: The number one thing is courage. What I often say is that when it comes to fighting racism, we don't have a 'how to' problem, we have a 'want to' problem. The issue is not what to do. The issue is, Will you do it? And I'm a historian, so I look back at the people we consider role models and examples in the racial justice movement, the Harriet Tubmans, the Sojourner Truths, the Ida B. Wells, the Fannie Lou Hamer's. What did they all have in common? They lived in different eras. They pursued justice in different ways. What they all had in common was courage. The courage to risk, the courage to take the necessary steps, the courage to stand on the side of justice when it was unpopular. And I think that's the call today.

Andrew: The key, it seems, isn't so much that we all need to gain an expert level of knowledge before we dive in, although learning is very important, and hopefully these episodes and books on Christian nationalism help. Here's Jemar Tisby again.

Jemar Tisby: So, for all the folks listening, I say, 'Start somewhere.' And where you start may not be what you continue to do. You may start with some sort of involvement in the carceral system. You may start with some sort of lobbying for a particular policy. You may start with getting to know folks who are different from you. Wherever you start, it's going to lead to awareness and relationships and commitment. And when you take the next step and the next step and the next step, each of them being a step of courage, you look up and you find yourself involved in the movement for racial justice today.

Andrew: Start somewhere even if you feel alone in all this. There is hope, though, if this sounds daunting. You're not alone. A recurring theme the experts and those working in this space shared, once we decide we'll no longer sit by or stay silent, we quickly find others who are on the same journey.

Mendi Tackett: You may speak up and be alone at the moment, but when you do speak up, it gives other people enough confidence that they'll generally speak up with you if they're in the same boat as you, right? If they see things the same way. And so it creates a, you know, a level of confidence within a group of people speaking up. So if somebody out there listening to this decides, well, I'm going to be brave, and I'm going to say something, you're going to empower somebody else to be brave with you. And then it's so much easier to speak out together. And your voice is louder that way. And that is really what we found, is once you start talking about it, you're really not alone.

Andrew: What impresses me about Mendi and Chris is they got involved where they were, where they found themselves, and this opened them up to see more and then learn more. And then the relationships came, and they realized they weren't alone. And then over time they found, and their story is shared by those in other communities across the US, people began to listen.

Chris Tackett: The dialogue broadly has changed. Things that, you know, we would talk about and would just fall flat, where you didn't think anybody was listening, now others are starting those conversations. And it is one, you know, people are catching up and understanding what's happening. And truly the only way we can fight back against this is it takes lots of voices, and we are finally hearing more and more voices speaking out. We still need a lot more, right? So that is one-- you know, this is definitely going to be an ongoing challenge, and something we've got to continue to work on. But from where we were just a few years ago to where we are with the conversation today, it is truly night and day, and that does give hope for if we can continue to educate people and continue to talk, we've got a chance to beat this.

Andrew: And it bears pointing out that there are a variety of organizations who are working to resource Americans, whether you're religious or secular, in understanding what Christian nationalism is and how we can all partner together to confront and oppose it in our communities, states and in the federal government. Take, for instance, Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. Americans United is a non-partisan advocacy organization with the goal of bringing people together of all religions or none, to protect the right of everyone to believe as they want to, and to stop anybody from using their beliefs to harm others. Here's Andrew Seidel again.

Andrew Seidel: I mean, certainly one thing they can do is join Americans United at au.org and not everybody can join, we understand that. If you want concrete actions that you can take, I suggest signing Americans United's One Nation All Beliefs pledge, sort of a pushback on the change to the Pledge of Allegiance, that made us one nation under God, right? We're one nation, all beliefs. And you go to au.org/pledge you sign up for that, and we are going to give you concrete things that you can do more and more and more.

Andrew: If you're a Christian, check out Christians Against Christian Nationalism, a campaign started by those at the BJC or Baptist Joint Committee. I have worked with them, helping to create resources to start conversations in Christian communities and settings. Several denominations are adopting resolutions condemning Christian nationalism. Like the Christian Church, Disciples of Christ, I personally know a number of congregations committed to wrestling with Christian nationalism. Seek to join and learn from communities like these. And of course, we're living in a time where there are some books being written that really wrestle with these issues, like my latest book, "American Idolatry," written to a Christian audience, and explores how Christian nationalism betrays the gospel and how Christians are beginning to confront and oppose it. There are a number of other really great books. So start your journey with one of these, and you can find a list of these resources in the show notes, and just see where it leads you.

Andrew: We began our journey in this podcast thinking through questions. It is through these questions, we're able to start understanding the prevalence of Christian nationalism and the negative influence it has on us, our communities and our nation. But asking questions isn't enough. We must now begin to act. We'll have to step out in courage like the Tacketts or Dr. Tisby into areas of disagreement with those around us, perhaps even those we've lived alongside for decades. Most of all, I think, we need to cast a positive vision for our collective future. We need to engage our imaginations toward what could be, how we can and should move toward a world where all have the opportunity to flourish, a world where we are all committed to defending each other's right to exist, where our commitment to shared values takes precedence over any demand that we share or abide by the beliefs of one particular expression of Christianity. Where Christians defend the right of Muslims to build mosques in their community, the right of secular Americans to send their kids to public school without fear they might be ostracized for not participating in a Christian prayer, where we can come together and have deep and meaningful conversations about the very biggest questions about life, death and what this all means. Much of this could be impossible in a United States, where White Christian nationalism maintains a privileged access to power. So now we have a collective decision to make: continue on as we have, or choose to turn around, push back and chart a new course. I know where I want to go. I look forward to walking alongside you. Thank you for listening to American Idols. If you want to learn more about my story and the work I do studying Christian nationalism, check out "American Idolatry," out now from Brazos Press. And thank you to all those who sat for interviews throughout this series and shared their expertise and stories with me. If you have a church group or organization that would like to use this series in a seminar, or course, check out axismundi.us for transcripts, resources and contact information until next time.

Bradley Onishi: Thanks for listening to American Idols from Axis Mundi Media. American Idols was created and written by Dr. Andrew Whitehead. It was produced by me, Brad Onishi. Our sound engineer is Scott Okamoto, who also provided original music. If you haven't already, hit subscribe in order to follow along with this series and all the other great content we're producing at Axis Mundi. We tell the stories at the center of our world so that we can all envision a better one. Until next time, keep your eyes open and feet on the ground.